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Gasoline Storage
I'm getting a new-ish 55 gallon steel drum that had oil in it for roofing and I'm getting it for free. I've been thinking I would store gas in it but now I don't know if it'll be worth all the hassle. I can store it undercover about 30 feet from my house and I'm not sure if that is sufficient space. I also wonder about the pump/filter, the venting of vapors, and the stabilizer. Is it just better to have a couple 5 gallon cans that I replenish as I use the fuel for the lawnmower and such? At least I'd have enough on hand to fill the car once.
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"Hassle"?? Well, I guess it depends on how badly you would like to store the 55 gal of gasoline. If you really want to store that much gas (not a bad idea at all, by the way), a drum is one way to store it in one big honkin' container. Rather than a pump, you might consider getting a "super siphon", which is basically a 6 foot plastic hose with a (one way) check valve at one end. You can drain a 5 gal jerry can VERY quickly with one of these, so it should also work with the drum. If you use the super siphon, no vapor venting is needed (you WILL be storing the drum outside in a shed or something like that, won't you????). Unscrew a bung, drop in the siphon, remove whatever gas you need, reseal the drum. As to stabilizer, if you use PRI-G (generally said to be better than Stabil), you can add it once a year. No fuss, no muss. I've used 2 year old PRI-G treated gas in cars, mowers, and my generator with no problems at all. Now that our benevolent government has outlawed the sale of surplus jerry cans (without any sort of spillproof valve attached), a steel drum might be a decent alternative. |
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Temperature stability is the key when storing gas. a If storing gas in a 55 gallon drum, a pressure vent may be good investment http://www.itoolcrib.com/itoolcrib/p...=270&Prod=1939 |
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[QUOTE=CrufflerJJ;1724830]
As to stabilizer, if you use PRI-G (generally said to be better than Stabil), you can add it once a year. No fuss, no muss. I've used 2 year old PRI-G treated gas in cars, mowers, and my generator with no problems at all. QUOTE] As part of a looooong term experiment, I am still using gas that was stored in a 55 gal steel drum in 1999. I add a couple of caps full of the PRI G to the gas can when I take a gallon out of the drum, before I put it into the equipment. It runs in my chain saw or splitter just fine. Not quite convinced that I would want to put it into a multi-thousand dollar engine though! Those vents for the drums look like a good investment. I just crack the seal of the drum a few times a year as the temperature changes. Without being cognisant of this, the drum may rupture, either explode or compress in on it's self due to the pressure differential. |
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I've never played around with drums of gasoline at home (& probably don't really want to, due to the weight of the drum). I store about 45 gal of gasoline in steel jerrycans in an outdoor shed. While the walls of the jerrycan bulge a bit at high temperatures, I've never seen any sort of rupture or collapsed container from high or low temperatures. I wonder if gasoline drum vents are really necessary if you're keeping the drum fairly full of liquid & are not trying to store it at 120 �F. The highest temp we normally see here in SW Ohio is ~100 �F in the summer. Arizona might be a different matter.... |
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The temperature swings are what gets you. Gas can contract and expand a lot depending on temp. So much so that some people are lobbying to get smarter pumps that will give you more gas in the summer since it expands so much and you get less BTU's per gallon. |
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Very well sealed steel drums ....I mean good seals and tighten the bungs......you can store gasoline for a very long time with no issues.....I've store fuel like this for nearly 10 years and it is just as good as new......the key is to prevent the evaporation of the very light end hydrocarbons....and that means very well sealed...way better than the average gas can. You do not even need stabilizer. Use it if you like. If you can make it happen - try to buy Aviation Gasoline 100LL....from a small local airport....it will last the longest....much longer that automotive pump gasoline. Remember - this Aviation 100LL is leaded - it will ruin a vehicle with a catalytic convertor.....100LL has 2 grams (about 2 cc) of TEL lead (tetra-ethyl-lead spelling???).....this is more lead than most old school automotive leaded fuel. It works fine in everything but cars with cats...
Aviation gasoline has a RVP (Reed Vapor Pressure) of 7.5 and it never changes by season......this is equivalent to automotive "summer" grade fuel......in the winter automotive gasoline boosts the RVP to 15 for better starting .....so Aviation gasoline will have a difficulty ....if not impossible starting in very cold weather for small gas engines without starters....even with starters.....hard time......Aviation = no problem in summer temps.......just keep a little fresh automotive winter gas to get equipment going in the winter. Diesel/Kerosene....you can store this way pretty much forever. I have a lot of first hand experience at fuels - this has been field tested by me first hand. Mose people have bad experience with old/stale/bad gasoline....because it is vented to atmosphere...and all the very volitile light ends evaporate out of the tank in about 8 - 12 months.... If you seal it tight it will last a very long time. |
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I am curious how it is working out with the new ethanol blended fuels? |
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Notice the drum in the truck, I use the 55 Gallon drums and the 150 gallon semi truck saddle tank to transport the fuel to my 600 gallon military tank.
ETA: I pump the fuel with a dual diaphragm air powered pump, It moves 55 gallon drum in about 10 Min's. http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j1...oweredPump.jpg Another way to move fuel although its not as fast as the dual diaphragm air powered pump is to use air and pipe fittings to force the fuel out of the drum, I use an air pressure regulator set to 2.5 - 3 PSI and a 3ft or so long pipe to get the fuel out of my drums. http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j1...Disconnect.jpg http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j1...isconnect2.jpg In the case of pumping fuel where I dont have compressed air at hand I use the 12 VDC Electric Fuel Pump pictured below. http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j1...icfuelpump.jpg If anyone is interested in a 600 gallon tank like this PM me I know of a few for sale on the west coast. http://goldismoney.info/forums/attac...1&d=1236575057 |
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Avoid the ethanol blends at all cost.....get 2 glass mason jars....one with known non-ethonol gasoline....keep it in there sealed tight.....when you go to buy gasoline read the pump....avoid ethanol.....still even if it says non-ethanol....put some gas in the 2 nd empty jar.....seal and shake the piss out of it as well as the standard.....lots of foam/bubbles = alcohol...... Again - for long term storage fuel...go with the Aviation gasoline. |
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I am now running diesel genset, and tractor. Hopefully soon an old diesel pickup. |
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I'd study storing kero and then adding lubrication where needed for actual diesel applications....I like kero for lighting and small heating.... You just about need to store both....a few drums of gasoline in deep storage should do it....might need a chainsaw or a water pump or a brush cutting line trimmer, etc..... |
Re: Gasoline Storage
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Temperature swings and REALLY tight barrels can lead to this: Air fitting attached to "blow it" back out...... |
Re: Gasoline Storage
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Can an above ground, gravity fed farm tank like this be used to store gasoline, maybe with additives, for a few years in warm climates? In some farm areas a local distributor will come out to fill these. ruprick, what think ye?
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I'd try to keep thast think under cover out of the sun. Inside a barn...probably no problem....try to keep it as full as possible. I do not like gravity feed unless you have a very robust shut off prior to the fuel hose. I try to fill mine in the winter to nearly full...then cap it tight.
Andy.....I bet that tank was only partially filled....i do not think that could happen with a nearly full drum. When I drum it up....it is for deep storage and full. You can bend up a drum by not opening the vent when you are pumping the fuel out. I use an electric fuel pump....made by Fillrite....about a $250 pump setup. Keep them in the shade....this greatly reduced the temp swings. |
Re: Gasoline Storage
Ruprick,
Nope...it was as full as any I fill....which is to say, 55gal in a drum....which leaves a slight ( maybe 1-2 gallon ) headspace. The drum didn't leak, either ! And this was stored in a cool location ( back wall of a shed that is 1/2 underground ), with foam board and tarp covering the front. Only one I've EVER had this happen, by the way. Can't really figure WHY it did it.... This was sealed the way I do them.....I never use the 3/4" hole ( unless, like this, I needed to stick an air adapter pc in there ), and paint it over. I also paint over the 2" opening after I used a gasketed 2" plug to go in it. And you're absolutely correct you can cave a drum in pumping fuel.....I've done it winding out a hand type pump ! Zoot: I have a pair of tanks on stands like that....one for gasoline and one for diesel. The gasoline one, I try to use up within a year, since they are vented, you are losing the light end of the gasoline hydrocarbons to the vent section. The shed I keep these in is covered ( open front ) and also under trees to minimize heat. I wouldn't think plan on over a year for them. Also, make SURE your filter has a water drain on it, and DRAIN IT come fall. Vented tanks will develop condensation, and you need a way to drain it, and watch out for freezing weather if that is an issue where you live, or you can bust the filter. ALSO, install a ball type shutoff valve right out of the tank, and before the filter. |
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You might want to check Government Liquidation for a truck called a CUCV another designation they call it is a M1008, M1028 and a few others.
ETA: to clarify the CUCV is a 1980-1987 or there abouts Chevy and GMC 5/4 ton truck They also made a 3/4 Ton Blazer that had the designation M1009. http://www.govliquidation.com/vehicles.html Pickup trucks link http://www.govliquidation.com/auctio...ck&cmd=keyword Check out my M1008 and pics of my way of moving fuel at the pics I posted in previous post. Quote:
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http://www.northerntool.com/webapp/w...70_31616_31616 http://www.northerntool.com/images/p.../109579_lg.gif |
Re: Gasoline Storage
For dispensing oil from drums.....I just made an adapter for one of the bungs that allows me to attach an air hose with a ball valve.....the other bung just has a simple standpipe and an exit nozzle .....when i want oil I just bleed a little air pressure into the drum.....and out comes the oil....
I've wondered about the safety in using this to dispense small quantities of fuel - for small gasoline equipment.......2 components of fire....fuel + oxidizer??? (missing ignintion). Mind you....it would only be a pressure of up to perhaps 30" water column.....call it 3' of water = about 1/10 of an atmosphere = 1.5PSI.....it is not much pressure....but still it is air over fuel. Might not be an issue with kero/diesel..... I have not done it yet......you could even use a small bicycle pump for the air......a low cost...easy to hook up and high degree of volume control.... I have a fuel cart on wheels that has a drum and my fillrite electric pump.....I use it to blend a fuel for an classic 1947 Cessna (Aviation 100LL + Automotive Premium) to give what would have been the same lead content as 80LL in the old days....0.5 g TEL/gal.....too much lead can lead to valve stem sticking.....but them old engines want some lead for lubricity of valve seats and stems...as well as anti-knock.... (100LL has 2 g TEL/gal....4X the target amount.....) ANYWAY.....everyone should make sure to use a grounding wire between drum and item to be filled.....regardless of pump type (even gravity feed)....static charge can build up between the drum and what you are filling.....I have a 20' length of nice flexible silicone jacketed test lead with an aligator clip on each end.......you do not want a spark when you go to place the filler handle/hose to the item to be filled....often with vapors and air mixing....ad spark = boom/fire.....you have to be careful and use your head....it looks simple buy it can be very dangerous..... Andy - amazed that the one drum crushed up like that.....like i said....I try to fill in the spring/fall/winter (cooler months)...so, mine are fairly pressurized in the summer.....I would have never thought the problem you had would be possible.....steel drums are tough suckers....I've seen 10,000 lb junk aircraft supported on a half dozen/10 drums.... I use a clear plastic fuel filter housing ....got it at local tractor supply....it is nice in that you can see any water in the system. It is well built and only cost about $20 or less..... When I'm done fueling......I take the hose and start lifting from the drum end and feed the hose fuel back into my drum via the bung.....a drained hose will never be able to siphon if for some reason the drun made a pressue and got the mess flowing.......I also coil the empty hose up on top of the drum as an added safety measure against siphon.... Whe you are workig with fuel...you have to use your head and plan ahead - this fuel is unattended and i do not want it dumping 15 gal out on the floor to evaporate and blow the place up.... |
Re: Gasoline Storage
This is certainly a great thread.
I have some land where I do not currently reside on but would like to hide/store some fuel in 55 gallons containers (likely two 55 gallon gas, two 55 gallon diesel, and one 55 gallon kerosene for now).. Anyone have experience with this or have and recommendations? Dave |
Re: Gasoline Storage
I just recently purchased a 55 gal drum to store gas in. I used seafoam for stabilizer and its completely sealed up. For awhile the tank was standing up right but as it heated and cooled the top would make a very loud bong noise when the metal popped up or down. So I turned it onto its side and that for the most part cured the noise, now if I wouldn't have hurt my back putting the barrel on its side (those sons of a bisniches are heavy when full).
I think I've had my barrel now for 2-3 month so far no issues. I also got a barrel pump from good ol' harbor freight. |
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Key thought here, Purchase an extra drum and let the pump or Air pressure (like I have displayed in a previous post above) do the work to move the fuel.
Important point: when using air pressure to move the fuel keep the pressure at the 3/4 drum port very low IE from 2-3 PSI max or you will expand the drum to the point where it bursts. Adapt a disposable garden hose to pipe thread to put the fuel where you want it. |
Re: Gasoline Storage
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Hmmm...now I'm thinking that instead of large barrels, maybe a bunch of steel jerry cans for storage. It might be easier to rotate stock to avoid some of the oxidation, evaporation problems discussed. Any idea where to get these, maybe military surplus?
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STRAWMAN....around here they get real sticky wanting a containment structure if you get a storage tank over 500gal...since yours is portable maybe it is exempt?
FWIW i keep 3 storage tanks.. 300gal gasoline gravity 500gal road diesel pumped 500gal farm diesel pumped (no tax dyed) i get fuel delivered for same as pump price and have them come buy once a month and refill me (gasoline) ...usually around 100gal ...its handy and since it is being rotated its always good everything i have is exposed to elements i have been thinking about enclosing the two diesel tanks with a small building and containment just for security and privacy thinking about puting in a #1 diesel(kerosene) tank for winter fuel..i have another 300gal tank sitting empty on a skid |
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I have 500Gal. above ground for diesel and gas mine are under trees.
Always ground (electrical ground) above ground tanks, they can give off a pretty good little shock/spark. They make a nice pressure relief valve for the big tanks that can save a lot of octane....but I'm still using a straight vent. |
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I guess i have to ask this question....(several of you have mentioned special grounding)
all of my tanks are in contact with the ground... my elevated (gravity) tanks are on a metal stand that is in direct contact with the ground my (pump) tanks sit on concrete on the ground i have had no issues with sparking etc should i be using a grounding strap to my fill vehicle?? |
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The vehicle is not grounded, the tires isolate the vehicle from the ground. The fuel flow will create a static charge to build up between the vehicle and ground, think of it as the vehicle becoming a capacitor. If you have ever left your car and got a zap from the static charge, that built up when you slid out of the seat and then touched the car, its the same thing. That is why most fires at gas stations start, when pumping gas, I think most gas hoses have metal in them, one reason is for strength and the other is to ground the hose. In the Air Force when refueling equipment you had to ground the hose to the vehicle, the same applyed when fueling aircraft. You do not have to do it, it is just safer to. :wink: |
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